In this episode of GC Sidebar, Paragon Legal CEO Trista Engel sits down with Shu White, Chief Legal Officer and Head of People at Motive, for a candid conversation on navigating volatility, winning high-stakes litigation, and leading through crisis with clarity and conviction.
Shu shares thoughtful insight into why “crazy is the new normal,” how values and deep business understanding anchor legal decision-making, and what it takes to guide a company through unpredictable challenges while strengthening trust.
From a landmark patent litigation win to the lessons learned from managing a data breach at a cybersecurity company, Shu offers grounded, real-world advice for today’s in-house leaders, plus her pick for favorite fictional lawyer. Watch the full episode now.
Trista Engel:
Hi, I’m Trista Engel, CEO of Paragon Legal, and welcome to GC Sidebar, a short and sharp conversation series with today’s most forward-thinking general counsel.
In just four questions, we cover the legal industry, leadership, careers, and a little fun.
Today I’m joined by Shu White, Chief Legal Officer and Head of People at Motive, a fleet management and driver safety technology company.
Shu began her legal career at Fenwick & West and then moved in-house to Imperva where she rose to her first general counsel role in 2017. She joined Motive in 2020 as GC and now Chief Legal Officer and Head of People.
Shu is a true citizen of the world having grown up in Saudi Arabia and lived in multiple countries and US states, and she is known for bringing both open-mindedness and a great sense of humor to her career.
Shu, welcome and thanks so much for joining me.
Shu White:
Hi Trista, so glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
Trista Engel:
Let’s jump in. What is the biggest challenge facing GCs and in-house legal teams today?
Shu White:
Crazy is the new normal, and I really think our job is to understand the business as well as we can. That is why we are in-house as opposed to external advisors, and understanding a business can be really challenging when the external environment is so volatile.
I really think volatility is the new norm, and that lawyers have to really learn to advise on risks, and risks change quickly. You have to be pretty nimble and pretty agile and pretty uncomfortable with the unpredictable and what that is going to do to your business in this particular moment.
I think the challenges are kind of to the core fundamental principles of the law itself, like enforceability and the rule of law in and of itself is being challenged. So I think being very principled about the advice you give, and having the courage to stand by your convictions, and understanding the values of your business is also really critical.
Trista Engel:
There are sort of three pieces to this puzzle you are describing. One is what is the actual law, the other is understanding the business and knowing how to advise based on your deep knowledge of the business, and the third is your values because, like you said, when things are changing, you need something to keep you grounded. I love that.
What accomplishment are you most proud of in your current role?
Shu White:
The accomplishment I am most proud of in my current role is our recent win in a competitor lawsuit. One of our competitors sued us about 18 months ago for patent infringement. It has been a long road to trial, and the trial finally happened in April in front of a jury in San Francisco.
Motive was found not to infringe any of our competitor’s patents, and we were further given a basis to invalidate some of the patents they asserted against us. It was just a really great feeling. Competitor lawsuits were new to me when I joined Motive, but I have an incredible internal IP counsel who was a former patent litigator and she is just a beast. She did an incredible job, and our outside counsel at King & Spalding were there with us every step of the way, and did an amazing job to get the result we did. I am super proud of that result for us this year.
Trista Engel:
What is one career moment that changed your trajectory?
Shu White:
When I worked at Imperva before I joined Motive, we had a data breach. We were a data security company that experienced a data breach, and that was really the crisis that made me realize I was ready to be a general counsel.
It felt pretty instinctual at that point how to respond, and I was surprised. I thought there was nothing worse that I could imagine happening to a data security company than a data breach. What I learned through that process was, number one, you cannot get through these things without having an incredibly strong team, and our team really rallied around the moment, and came together to rebuild trust with all of our customers.
It was actually a really enlightening process to learn that you can make a mistake, be honest about it, talk through how it happened, explain the changes you are making to make sure it does not happen again, and understand what customers need to know from you to best respond to the situation. We did not lose any customers and we only strengthened our relationships.
For anyone who wants to be a general counsel, the more you can enjoy those crisis moments, as terrible as they are, the more you will learn from them and find upside in them. If you have the stomach for it, if it actually brings you calm to handle them, that is a good sign. Honestly, I think moms are really good at this, and I think women in general take pressure and crises well, and are able to juggle the craziness of the moment, and look ahead to the upside. That moment forged me as a general counsel and made me sure I was ready for this role.
Trista Engel:
What a great reflection to know that in the moment you felt really equipped to handle it, and what a testament to how you handled it that you did not lose any customers, and came out the other side having learned a ton, and gone through something so hard that ultimately was okay.
If you were not an attorney, what would you be?
Shu White:
I actually cannot answer this question. It is such a core part of my identity now. I have been lawyering for over half my life, so if I took that away, I would be a completely different person. I think I would be very happy just to focus on parenting and spending a lot of time with my family.
Trista Engel:
There is no nobler career than that.
Shu White:
It is a lot of fun and a lot of work. I think it could definitely deserve my full attention.
Trista Engel:
All right, bonus question. Who is your favorite fictional lawyer?
Shu White:
I do not know if she is my favorite, but I recently started rewatching Ally McBeal. She is completely neurotic and a little bit crazy, but the whole series was really successful and narrated from a female perspective. It was the first time it felt so raw, honest, and vulnerable about how hard it can be. I think all of us professional women still find ourselves in rooms where we are the minority. It has been fun to revisit that show and what it meant to women lawyers at the time.
Trista Engel:
That is a great one. I am going to go back and rewatch it. I am sure it is timeless in some ways.
Well that was really fun, Shu, thank you so much for sharing your journey, sharing your insights, and being so thoughtful with your answers.
Shu White:
I really enjoyed it.
Trista Engel:
All right, that is a wrap on today’s episode of GC Sidebar. Catch more great conversations on our website at paragonlegal.com. Thanks for tuning in.
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